Policing is evolving, and with it comes a growing recognition of the critical role women play in shaping its future. At the forefront of this movement is Dr. Tanya Meisenholder, Director of Gender Equity for the Policing Project at New York University School of Law, where she leads the 30×30 Initiative to advance the representation, experiences and well-being of women in policing. With over three decades in policing, including her tenure as the NYPD’s Deputy Commissioner for Equity and Inclusion, Dr. Meisenholder brings a wealth of experience and insight to the challenge of advancing women in law enforcement.
In this candid conversation, Dr. Meisenholder dives into the origins of the 30x30 Initiative, the structural and cultural barriers women face in policing, and how this ambitious project is redefining representation and workplace fairness. From addressing misconceptions about physical fitness standards to tackling workplace culture and sexual harassment, she sheds light on the critical work being done to advance women in policing — and what remains to be achieved.
What is the relationship between the NYU Law School Policing Project and the 30x30 Initiative?
The NYU Policing Project is 30x30’s organizational home. It allows us to operate as a nonprofit and has served as an incubator for our work. I joined the NYU Policing Project in September 2023 to oversee the 30x30 Initiative to advance women in policing.
The Policing Project has a broad portfolio, centered around alternative responses and legislative reform. Our work aligns most closely with the legislative portion because part of what we’re thinking about is how to make changes at the state level.
Many in the policing community are familiar with the 30x30 Initiative, but for those who may not know much about it or are unsure of its goals, could you explain its purpose?
30x30 is an initiative to advance and support the representation and experiences of women in policing, and seeks to increase the representation of women in police recruit classes to 30% by 2030. The goal is much broader than just aiming to improve the percentage of women in policing. There are 18,000 police departments in the United States and 40% of them have no women at all, so we recognize that most agencies will not get to 30%. However, the 30% goal is purposeful because it’s based on a theory of representative bureaucracy that indicates it requires an underrepresented group to get to 30% representation to make real change in an organization.
What kind of change are you talking about?
Our focus is on improving fairness and reducing bias in an agency and making sure that women’s unique needs are met. We consider what attracts women to policing, and why they leave. We focus on recruitment, hiring, and other processes and strategies. We want agencies to assess and build policies and processes and determine whether they’re potentially biased against people in the workforce. The most difficult part of our work is around organizational change and culture, and how to change the culture of an agency.
I’m glad you brought up culture, I’m going to circle back to that in a moment, but first I want to focus on 30x30’s founding. My understanding is 30x30 was a grassroots movement. I had the pleasure of meeting co-founder Ivonne Roman at an international policing conference in Greece and met up with her again at IACP, where she introduced me to the other co-founder Maureen McGough. Could you discuss the genesis of the organization?
Ivonne Roman, then the police chief in Newark, New Jersey, noticed that women were failing the physical fitness exams at a higher rate than men. Upon investigating, she discovered that the fitness test had been moved earlier in the academy timeline, giving women less time to prepare. In response, she created a weekend program to support women in preparing for and passing this portion of the academy.
Meanwhile, Mo McGough was working at the Department of Justice. She and Ivonne began discussing the challenges women faced in policing. Together, they started meeting with others to explore solutions and advance this work. Their collaboration led to the 2019 NIJ publication, “Women in Policing: Breaking Barriers and Blazing a Path,” which convened a diverse group of experts to address the unique challenges faced by women in policing.
They then established a steering committee, which I joined while serving as the NYPD’s Deputy Commissioner of Equity & Inclusion. Drawing from my experiences and observations at the NYPD, I contributed to shaping the vision for what 30x30 could become as an organization. In March 2021, 30x30 officially launched, with Mo McGough and Ivonne Roman as co-founders. The initiative was supported by several partners, including female police organizations and allies. I would describe it as a grassroots coalition — bringing together researchers, police leaders, and advocates — united by a shared commitment to understanding and advancing the role of women in policing.
I’d like to revisit something you mentioned earlier, particularly regarding critics who may point to the challenges women faced with the fitness test in Newark, drawing negative inferences. How do you address those concerns?
We do have critics, and much of their criticism stems from fundamental misconceptions about what we’re truly advocating for. We’re not promoting tokenism or quotas, nor are we suggesting that women should receive special treatment or be hired at the expense of men. Importantly, we’re not advocating for lowering standards.
When it comes to physical fitness, we emphasize the lack of a standardized, nationwide benchmark. Many physical fitness standards used across the U.S. have never been validated to ensure they are job-relevant for specific jurisdictions. We believe there’s nothing wrong with ensuring that both men and women have access to the tools and training they need to fully prepare for fitness tests — or any other assessments.
I went through the New York State Police Academy back in 1985, and there was always remedial help for academics. Nobody ever questioned male recruits who had to go for academic tutoring. There was never anyone saying, “This guy’s going for extra help, we should get rid of him. If he can’t hack it, he should be out of here.” So, it’s funny how the script is flipped when discussing the physical test.
It’s ironic you say that too. The Bureau of Justice Statistics collects data on police training academies, and just released the latest report. It’s based on their 2022 findings and they found that the reasons women drop out of the academy or don’t make it through, whether they’re disqualified or discontinued, are for driving, shooting a firearm and physical fitness. The reasons males drop out are for academics and misconduct. But you raise a very valid point. Why is it okay to provide tutoring for people, but not to help them with other things? Women are not built the same way as men. We might need more training in order to pass the same exams. What’s wrong with that?
And it doesn’t negate the female officer’s competency, ability, or their worth in a department.
Exactly, but I would raise two points. What makes a good cop? Is it decision-making, communication skills, having empathy? And is policing really about physical fitness? Most agencies have physical fitness standards to get in, but not to stay on the job. There are men who can’t chase people because they don’t stay fit after the academy, and that’s a problem in policing.
I think we have fitness issues across the board with many police officers, male and female, that must be addressed. If an agency were to do that, or we established national standards, how do you see it impacting women in policing, either in retaining them or recruiting them?
It’s about the physical safety and wellness of all police officers. A number of agencies have validated their physical fitness standards but that may have been 30 years ago. Times have changed and you need to consider injuries as well, that’s an important caveat. The NYPD has an obstacle course as part of its physical fitness exam. On the course is a six-foot wall. Do you know how many injuries happened on that six-foot wall? How often is an officer going to have to go over a six-foot wall in some jurisdictions?
This is such a tough topic, and it gets people heated when you talk about the physical fitness standards for police officers. Agencies need to consider where applicants are falling out in the process, across all assessments. There are also legal considerations that agencies need to take into account.
Nationally there has been a decrease in police applicants. Police hiring in the last few years has been impacted by several different events, such as the pandemic, negative press about the police and a generational loss of interest. What do you think holds women back from applying to become a police officer?
There are a lot of differing perspectives on police and what they represent. I think there are a number of reasons that impact the overall number of women who are attracted to and applying for the police profession.
There’s clear evidence about why women don’t join policing, and for some, it’s because they can’t see themselves in this male-dominated field. Perhaps there’s some concern that they won’t be able to make the cut in terms of physical fitness standards or other requirements of the job.
Work-life balance is another factor. Policing is not for everyone. When you think about the demands of the job — shift work, high stress, the potential danger — all of these different aspects impact the interest and decision-making process for women. There are a lot of women who don’t see policing as a viable career option. Also, you can’t discount the friends and family phenomenon, you know, do you want your daughter to be a police officer? Is that a field you would want your wife or whomever to be a part of?
One thing about 30x30 is we are about making sure there are qualified applicants. In a time of staffing challenges, you might have an untapped pool of people you haven’t considered or targeted that could be a really good fit for policing and bring a unique value to policing. But they may not be aware of the opportunities, and agencies may not be aware of what they can offer.
OK, so if I’m a police chief or the head of personnel in a large agency, why do I want women in my department? What’s the added value they bring?
Part of it involves diversity of thought and perspective and ensuring that everyone is represented in your agency. We need to talk about the value of diversity, such as your community and what it looks like. All communities are different. So, I don’t think it’s as easy as saying 50% of the population is women; therefore, 50% of policing must be women, but research does indicate that women use less force. They are better at de-escalation. They’re better at communicating with victims, especially victims of sexual assault and domestic violence. They cost the agency less in terms of complaints. I think it centers on women’s communication skills. They tend to be more empathetic and compassionate, and focused on providing that protective factor versus the “us versus them” mentality.
Of course, I recognize some of these are select studies in specific locations, and that there is more research to be done, but policing has evolved over the past few decades. We know that use of force is far less acceptable than it used to be. Why wouldn’t we want people at the table who tend to use less force and can de-escalate? We are not saying men cannot de-escalate, what we are saying is women are uniquely beneficial in this way.
I want to return to the issue of police culture. It always comes up in discussions about policing, whether it’s police misconduct, use of force, or bias in policing. You already touched upon how it impacts female recruitment. How do we change the culture, or specifically, what needs to be changed?
Part of it has to do with accountability from the top. You have to ask what the agency represents? What is tolerated in an agency? What role models are put forward? We need to look at how people are held accountable in an agency. How does a leader make a safe place where people are willing to speak up and discuss tough issues like sexual harassment?
Changing culture is a tough thing to do. It takes time, but a lot of it comes down to fairness, respect in the workplace and what you’re willing to allow. A leader has to make hard decisions about some folks and make it very clear what’s not going to be accepted.
What resources does 30x30 provide for police agencies looking to recruit more women?
We ask agencies to commit to reporting on a six-month cadence on a series of items and commit to our pledge regarding female representation. We’re currently updating and revising our pledge based on what we’ve learned from our initial cohort of agencies. We are focused both on empirical evidence and women’s lived experiences. We have a community of practice where we engage and try to give agencies resources in the field. It’s important to bring people together to think about what some of the challenges are and how to make improvements in their agency.
One of the things that’s important to us, too, is accountability. To be frank, some agencies sign onto 30x30 because it’s great public relations at the time, but they’re not really invested in the work. We know that policing is reactive, so maybe it’s women in policing today, but tomorrow it’s something else, so we want to keep them involved in that commitment to improve the workplace for everyone. Part of it is through state-level work that we’re engaging in.
Can you talk a little bit about that state-level work? Is it legislative?
We have over 400 agencies who have signed the 30x30 pledge and we’re very happy about that, but how much can you accomplish at an individual agency level when you have 18,000 agencies in the country? We’re focused on what we can do at either the POST or a state police chief association or legislation that will be impactful for advancing all police officers, especially women.
One example is Washington State where the legislature passed a bill on flexible work options that’s designed to help people with the staffing challenges in policing more broadly. It will also help women who may want to reduce work hours during childcare years. If you think about flexible work, about ensuring that recruitment strategies are inclusive of all the different people the police department represents, there are several things that could be handled at the legislative level, depending on the state, that will help with staffing challenges and with officer safety and wellness issues, which is where I put sexual harassment.
Let’s wrap up by talking about sexual harassment and gender discrimination for a moment. Would it be fair to say this may be another factor that potentially dissuades women from entering a police career?
I think it is if you’re paying attention to the news. You see news articles about some egregious things that happened in policing that can quickly dissuade someone from choosing policing as a career option. But it’s hard to say how much it impacts their decision. Some women generally shy away from male-dominated workplaces because they are not interested in working in that type of environment.
Unfortunately, policing is known as an occupation where sexual harassment is rampant and there’s data to back that up. We’ve done some surveys with women across the United States, and a very high percentage have said they experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. Part of the challenge is the definition. What does sexual harassment entail? More work needs to be done.
But to answer your question, I think it does impact recruitment efforts. When women think about a law enforcement career, it is something that comes up. It also could impact a woman’s decision to choose between one agency and another. If you have a number of police departments in your immediate area, and you’re doing research, consider how that agency represents itself and what’s their stance on women in policing? I don’t think that we have a good answer to solving the sexual harassment challenge, but that’s the topic for you and me to continue to delve into.
